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110955-so-whats-our-incentivecarrot-now
Content ---- ---- ---- Exactly. The game is actually fun now. I didn't really have a problem personally before but getting in a practice BG with undergeared teammates was bad news. I've been fooling around in practice BGs solo queuing and we've wont about 15 and lost 2. I'm happy with the PVP changes. Additional rewards are easy to give out. Hopefully going forward everything above 1800 is cosmetic epeen display only. Hugh Shelton can finally let it fly! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z978-Mg9afc You got rid of the gear gaps. Now we just need some cosmetic gear for above 1800! | |} ---- ---- ---- Drops for PVE. I don't care what happens top PVP. PVP needs to die. That way people can learn to go play PVP games. If I were a Hardcore PVPer I wouldn't be playing WildStar. I'd be playing Darkfall, GW2 and Asian MMORPGs. They should have just let PVP be minigame status like Rift. Then Nerf things that seem too op. You will never be able to make PVPers happy. | |} ---- ---- ---- Every successful MMO has incentives for us to continue playing their game. There isn't a single MMO that's played without any sort of horizontal or vertical progressfion. The reason I bring up these points, is because I want the game to succeed long term and have a large and healthy userbase. And the formula for that is ALWAYS having carrots or progression or something to work towards while we enjoy the gameplay. Even in regards to PVE, once everyone has perfect runeslots this patch and full amp/ability points in a couple months and facerolling all PVE content.. then what? These are all questions I ask because I hope the devs are keeping these things in mind for the longterm health of the game. Again, I'm happy with the changes like everyone else, but I do kind of feel they're making the game slightly more casual in result, by making everything so easily accessible now. | |} ---- ---- ---- Interesting how a big quality of life change such as making items that were always intended to be available, readily available. Looks like you're still bitter about those changes. Let's try to move on from the negativity and start focusing on what really matters, this game can be fun and functional again! There are plenty of carrots: PvE - Gold dungeons / Raids PvP - Awesome looking gear / future leaderboards etc Currency - How much gametime can you stock up? Crafting - Keeping up with dailies to be the premier crafter on the server Forums - Making lots of constructive posts so people don't think you're so toxic (Nazryn) See plenty of things you can do! | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Whose paying a sub? o_0 not me :P :P :P :P | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- People play games to play games? What sick twisted world is this!? | |} ---- Some people just want to watch the world have fun. *dramatic tune* | |} ---- If you honestly think my posts are toxic... you need to actually start reading this forum. According to most people around here I'm a "white knight", Thanks for dropping in Anlath. Always good to hear from our beloved Com. Manager :) I think those of us who are less than pleased are so BECAUSE these points were progression, rather than something like gear. I can't speak for anyone else; but putting in the time to farm them / having to actually dedicate a sizeable amount of effort to obtain them was something that at least some of us enjoyed. Call me crazy; but when I was in college farming skill points / and collecting limit points in FFXI, that actually felt like 'endgame progression'. Sure it took 3- 6 months to cap your limit points; and could take weeks to cap a skill; the feeling of accomplishment after was a genuinely rewarding feeling. The same can be said about the old AMP / Ability system. Sure it may not have been intended; but you could either farm for a week and a half or save EP for a few weeks to get a point / tier. Once you got one though (especially if you were farming them) it was a major feeling of accomplishment. Just my 2 cents. The changes will no doubt improve player concurrency (at least for a while), and that was the major issue most folks have been having with the game recently. | |} ---- Absolutely get that, it's just one of those "different strokes" kind of deals. One players trash is another players treasure and all that stuff. It's difficult, because I do think (personally, ofc) those points need to be more accessible BUT I do understand that for some players they were a great sense of progression. | |} ---- "Real" PVPers don't play MMO's. They play fighters, mobas and shooters, all of which are pretty much standard across the board and there's not "gear" to make up for lack of skill like MMO's. | |} ---- ---- ---- Indeed. One thing that is totally unacceptable however is why after 3 months... I STILL can't like your posts :D | |} ---- ---- Make them into progression some other, less unbalancing way, so everybody wins? Crafting maybe? Or economic progression? Cosmetic progression? | |} ---- ---- Damn right! Also, your avatar....I like it | |} ---- Why not all of above I play MOBAs and Shooters, and recently MMOs. (I do hate the gear stuff, but if they just gave all PvPers the same set, it could be a more competitive game). Also back on topic, I do not see why you need a carrot. The game I have the most hours in is Counter Strike: Source. I didn't play that game to get some kind of gun or gear. There was no carrot. I played the game because I wanted to play the game and have fun. Seem reason I enjoy playing WildStar. I don't queue for PvP to gain prestige, I do it to enjoy playing a battleground match. | |} ---- ---- Because open world PvP is where you find the fair fights, where it comes down to player skill, not 3v1 or 1800-gear vs PvE scrubs. BTW, have you heard back yet from that Nigerian prince who needed your help with a few simple financial transactions? | |} ---- There's an emphasis for that right there and you're spot on. A video game is a fun video game. MMOs are persistent online social games. The point of playing this game is to play it socially, with others, within the game's world. Getting that next new piece of gear? a perk to making my charcter more powerful; that next title? tells others how much of a badass I am; the skill points? a bit more progression; housing decore? now we're talking rewards! And my experience is different than others, but it's a matter of perspective. But I played through Malgrave by killing attacking (failed to kill a few) every Dominion scum I saw stinking up that desert. For points? No. For rank? Can't get that in world PvP. So why? Because I can, because I rolled on a PvP server, and because I enjoyed it! Anyone want to guess why players PvPed in Vanilla WoW? Because it was F.U.N. (Freakin' Unbelievably Nice) An enjoyable time for the sake of just playing the game and going at it. Several hours at Taurin Mill just because; not for gear, points, ranks, nothing. Just for fun. Bottom line: PLAY A GAME FOR THE FUN OF IT! ~If a game isn't fun and you need a huge carrot -bait- to entice you to play, then you're doing it wrong and should probably stop playing to instead find something that is fun to you. | |} ---- ---- I agree, lets stop paying professional athletes. Let them play for the fun of it. Lets also stop awarding medal's, trophies, and any form of recognition for success. They should be happy enough enjoying their games. While we are at it, let's take the betting out of professional poker; I bet they will be very happy to finally be able to just play for the fun of it :) /sarcasm | |} ---- ---- You arguments are completly juvenile and the /sarcasm at the end makes me want to guess you are ..... 14? 15? years old. Now to get on topic and actually respond to you: Professional athletes have "playing sports" as their job, thats why they are getting payed. If your job was to sit and play Wildstar, you would also be getting payed. One way to do this is to become a popular streamer and stream Wildstar to thousands of viewers, is that incentive enough for you? In case of trophies and such i am pretty sure Carbine said long long ago in a galaxy far far away (a referense you probably dont know due to my estimate of your age) that the top players each seasons would be rewarded with titles and/or cosmetics / mounts. Im pretty sure you can even simulate professional poker by "betting" that you will get back to 1800 rating without ur gear: Sell your hard earned 1800 gear. Queue for battlegrounds/arena/warplot at 1200 rating See if you make it back to 1800. Did you make it back to 1800? Well congratulations you won the bet: Your reward is all the gear you earned and some fun times. Did you not make it back to 1800? Sorry you lost the bet and your gear. Now, as for comparing sitting at your computer for a few hours each week playing a few games of PvP in Wildstar... that equivalent cant be find anywhere in real life and trust me.. even if there were you wouldnt be getting rewards for it. --- Should i call the fire department? Because you just got burnt son. Regards, Commander Juddy | |} ---- Professional athletes are not the same as playing a game. (Even though professional athletes get paid way too much. Ricky Rubio should not have a nicer place than me because he can shoot a ball in a baseket.. pass the ball to Kevin Love.) NBA players didn't start playing basketball to be rich, they did it because the enjoyed the game and it later turned into a job for them. Also you can have medals and trophies. Host a PvP tournament with a prize pool, but that doesn't mean a game needs to have a carrot. You can create a carrot. | |} ---- Hate doing two posts in a row but sadly i must respond to this aswell. Edit: Thanks Zombiechan :P Buhu you can work from home and have lots of time on your hands during the night, poor you. I'm fairly certain that 98% of the playerbase in wildstar either has school or work during weekdays (i base that assumption on that BGS, Dungeons and Adventure queues are much faster even into like 1-2 am during weekends). The 2% that are left are people like you, who decide their own schedule in some kind of way... even out of those 2% i doubt its a majority that think sitting up in the middle of the night playing Wildstar is what they want to do... some people like having a regular daily rythm that can be compared to their friends. Some people like to sleep during the night and be awake during the day. With that said, i am also one of those people that currently can adjust my schedule however i want. I do Dungeons/Adventures/Battlegrounds/Zone Events during the day with people, then i do daily quests and other tedious tasks to improve my character during the night when its not "peak times". Regards, Commander Juddy | |} ---- We're just barely scratching the surface of legendary items (you have to go all the way to DS to get them)...and there's a whole extra tier of gear above that! And don't forget that you can't even craft gear above excellent right now...so that can be expanded on, a TON. As for PvP, Carbine has said the PvP ladder system will be fleshed out with season rewards/leaderboards/etc., they're just not in place yet. Even so, the 1800-gear is still superior to 1500-gear, which is still superior to baseline gear...the gear gap was tightened, it wasn't removed. So your precious carrot is still there. EVEN AFTER THAT, PvP is skill-based competition. So the ultimate carrot for PvP is simply being the best...everything else is just a bonus. Are you REALLY worried about long-term goals here...or just trying to stir up some controversy? | |} ---- I think you just hit the nail on the head. Wouldnt surprise me if OP isnt on a subscription... probably just playing untill his last credd runs out before going back to some other MMORPG where there are "incentives" and meanwhile he is trying to stir up some drama here. | |} ---- ---- Having something to do =/= content. If i played Lineage, lienage 2, ragnarok online.. .from day 1 till today, i would still have stuff to do.... but of course all that stuff to do is considered unnaceptable in the western market. If you ask me if i want to do boring grind during 6 months to get my extra points, OR; if i want to get them in 1 month and have the devs take my sub money and actually develop meaningfull content for me to do the next 5 months, ill choosethe later 435% of the time. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- If you don't have time to play a genre that is suppose to be long winded then DON'T PLAY IT! | |} ---- Pretty much what Arathian said, this type of game genre is specifically designed as a time sink. I played MMOs before during "those days". And I was already "grown up" (to an extent), with work and relationship/life commitments. And this is exactly why it was all a grind, because we can dedicate a certain amount of time to play per day/week and during those times we spend doing the same content over and over to get that gear incentive. And no, if you don't like doing something, it IS your choice. The option is always there, you just choose not to do it. | |} ---- You're really bad at the whole toxic white knight troll thing you've resigned yourself too. A subscription based recreational computer game is nothing like professional sports or gambling and we do get "medals" for success on a regular basis in the form of titles and of course the actual medals. Everyone knew points were going to have better sources implemented. The dev post about it from before launch still gets refreshed regularly. Your just constantly negative for the sake of being negative | |} ---- Your wit is so scathing and poignant... quick some one get me a band-aid for my boo-boo... /sarcasm yup, I've been alive for more than 4 decades but I'm totally 14. Only kids understand sarcasm. Glad you found the time to respond to the actual point of my post as well; the fact that all games worth playing have reward systems in place. Be it monetary; prestige, trophy, etc. Since it seems comprehension can be difficult for some of us; I'll spell it out. Games most often not played 'just because they are fun'. They are played to achieve some tangible or pseudo-tangible goal, or to sate a competitive desire. My point = games played for achievement / competition Other's points = games played for fun One of those two statements is supported by contemporary social mores, the other isn't. | |} ---- ---- ---- Games most often not played 'just because they are fun'. They are played to achieve some tangible or pseudo-tangible goal, or to sate a competitive desire. Arena and Rated Battlegrounds are pretty competitive, even if there isnt some huge gear reward from doing it. There are plenty of competitive games that dont reward anything for winning except rating and satisfaction of knowing that you beat the other team/player. My point = games played for achievement / competition There are plenty of competition in Wildstar PvP and even more Achievements. Doubt you've completed every achievement under the PvP tab. But seriously, i know you mean achievement as "sense of achievement" and grind your way to the top of the ladder / leaderboard and earn your season champion title / mount and get plenty of sense of achievement. Beat Warmongers RBG team in Walatiki and get even greater sense of achievement. If you dont feel the competition, the sense of achievement or the fun in Wildstar PvP, perhaps try some other game. | |} ---- You do have a point with the the way gaming has evolved over the last few years. Even if you look at console games the single player (and some of the multiplayer) modes all have achievements or trophies to keep you playing the game months after you finish the storymode for the first time (and nowadays many games have a storymode that's 20 hours at most, especially when you avoid side-trips). That being said I can agree with your argument if you were a lone wolf type player with no guild or friends. If you play in a group you have a bigger incentive to play that isn't just achievement, for just yourself anyway. It's making the group stronger so that you can have more laughs and more memorable experiences in-game whether they be good or bad (and those guild achievements). IMO, an MMO is played because of the friends you make, the rivals you attain, the enemies you hate. It's all apart of living another life in a virtually created world. Most of my time on any of the MMOs I've played has been just lounging around talking at home hubs, Main Cities, talking about life, or grinding hard in a dungeon or PvP match, with those same friends/rivals/enemies that I've made. If you can't make those in this game, either you're not trying hard enough or, you just have terribad luck. There's always another MMO for you to try. | |} ---- There are professional videogame players.... There are likewise non-professional athletes. But the best players (in all cases) move up the rewards structure. Shaq started playing basketball as a kid; got better; played for LSU, got better, played pro.... That is a text book example of a very competitive rewards structure. You run in a race; you beat most of the competition, you place on the podium / get medal / trophy You spend 10 years in post secondary education, you get a fancy piece of paper with the letter,s Ph.D on it You spend 100 hours playing Final Fantasy 13 you unlock sweet loot / achievements etc Enjoyment rarely (read; RARELY, as in not never, but not often) comes from the game itself; but of the rewards of that game. A big part of that is in the reward structure. | |} ---- If you feel there is a reward structure in W* beyond just playing, then why argue my point that enjoyment frequently comes from progressing along the rewards structure? Sounds like you misunderstood my statements and are arguing a strawman; because I never said W* content DIDN'T have a rewards structure... | |} ---- ---- If you know there is a reward structure, then why are you here asking what the reward structure is? | |} ---- I don't remember seeing any of you in Lineage 2. | |} ---- I'm not. Early in the thread I agreed with OP the long term progression at this time is now gone. That says little to nothing about the reward structures in place; only that long term progression is fairly void at the moment. It also says nothing about what WILL be added in upcoming patches. | |} ---- Yup, that happens. And then the companies go out of business because they aren't appealing to a wide enough customer base. The average age of gamers is 30 years old (just Google it). That means, on average, gamers will have significant responsibilities that make claims on their time. Jobs, families, advanced schooling, etc. We won't quit a game out of spite (usually), but we will quit it if we just can't fit it into our lives. | |} ---- ---- | |} ---- JTal, if you / your team made a golden Carrot plush and made it literally the hardest thing in the game to obtain (either a preposterously low drop rate and BoP OR a preposterously epic quest-line that forced us to collect things from all over Nexus (similar but much more involved than the Strain Lab plot plug quest).... I would literally love you forever !!!! | |} ---- ROFL I needed that so much from someone, JTal. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- People playing a game because they enjoy it went out of style a decade or two ago. These people now need goals to play a game, might explain why most are so obnoxious and bratty. :) | |} ---- ---- Im afraid im past the age and naiveness of believing in marketing and promises. Actually, not even one situation comes to mind regarding devs delivering what they promised, in the mmo universe. And, in the end, action combat seems the natural evolution. Tab target is kinda of a deal breaker in this day and age. Also, time/value is not an issue for me, its more about time/quality... and thats too subjective to arguee about. | |} ---- ---- ---- Lmao.... what the hell man | |} ---- We'll remember this human! *points an Aurin claw* This means war! | |} ---- ---- ---- We like meat! Plants have feelings stop slaughtering plants! Also Carrots are cute pets not gross. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- While I do agree that a lot of people keep playing to chase the carrot so to speak, I play because I enjoy the people I play with and the game play. I don't need a carrot. | |} ---- ---- ----